tv Key Capitol Hill Hearings CSPAN July 1, 2014 10:36pm-1:01am EDT
3ñá changes it is hard to unwind it is not a great answer but i hope it answers a little bit. >> to go to the last comment about the young people how we are attacked and vulnerable. with the one being social issues in where rand paul got his standing ovation is as long as the social issues are something that people dig their heels and the government does it need to tell us.
and data we are divided on that's been the reason rand paul got a standing ovation they don't have problems with most social issues. >> i agree completely but i'd like to come back to history. for those of you better students of history with the first evangelical president was elected jimmy carter 66 percent the evangelicals got mad. four years later he lost with ronald reagan carrying 64% my point is social
conservatives have to be kept with in the structure or we will complete the reformulate i cannot speak for senator paul because i know the man they he is the social conservative to the best of my knowledge it with the issue he tries to ram down the throats. i paid three. fact is important. >> day concept that might be useful how do you relate to the concept with the term
american exceptionalism to the allied presented? >> we have 17 kids to readers of the book and to talk about that in the book to say we are losing that the way that we stifle the market our government is involved in by freeing people the can keep this experiment going. you remember the equitation would obama said about american exceptionalism. and that is the problem. i believe democrats and the liberals tried for uniform mediocrity. and feel that american exceptionalism is wrong.
i don't. believe that our country and america and by having a big tent held up by polls or killers that we can save our country and continue this great american experiment. >> faq. mark levin and his supporters say given the size of government and the complexity of the allies say you need fundamental constitutional reform done proposed state level because if you have good people for leadership positions a
permanent bureaucracy or a government what thought the you have about that? >> and i think bureaucrats today are politicians. that is what is happening they have not become civil servants but politicians with tenure. i know how we do it the state's become less and less important these are being shut down washington is the key to and the schaede dose 50 places washington is where past to start. >> do we have a final question?
>> i tell us story through every one identity is a threat to israel at my a gender is mail my religion is muslim my citizenship is is american but my nationality is sirenian my ethnicity is per-share michael sher is middle eastern, everything about me % off all the warning signals for israel. some of the experience of the iranian and american single man to do get through the airport in the 21st century is a reminder to everyone that that has diminished the boundaries as cultures despite all of that all you have to do is spend a few minutes to get to the airport to remember that
[inaudible conversations] our guest this morning as transportation and secretary a one dash secretary foxx his first visit so thank you for coming here disagree at davidson college the first african-american student body president and from the york university. after law school he spent a month in new orleans played trumpet to become friends with marsalis after working in a law firm he attack a job as a repeals court judge and on the staff of the house judiciary committee he returned to charlotte in 2001 to work and offered their and was elected to the city council 2005 and reelected 2007. elected the city's mayor to thousand 90 and this person
ever to hold that job and confirmed as the 17th transportation is secretary last june. so much for the biography. a word of thanks to my partner and monitor breakfast for the last couple of years heading off to graduate school. and share it who'd just8yq graduated from northwestern will takeover and she brought grace under pressure and kindness thank you. [applause] so now to the more mundane process matters on the record no life blogging or tweeting or no filing while the breakfast is under way to give us time to listen to what the guest says the no embargo when the session
ends if you'd like to ask a question please send mae a subtle signal i will call on with the time we have available. it has said time to make comments and removed to questions from around the table. >> '01 to thank the "christian science monitor" for being here. i hope this is a thunderous said dauphin is that being the very best one. [laughter] and silvia of garcia as cfo of the department you will understand surely why i have faster to be with me this morning. the department of transportation has been warning for the highway trust fund is running out
and we have been doing this over the last several months. we began in january with a sticker on the web site that gave the public in up to the minute you of how the highway trust fund is performing at that time we predicted the highway trust fund could run dry as early as august of this year. in april paid to the two were of the country 12 cities and towns large and small across america to raise the urgency of the issue to make sure the public understands what is at stake if the highway trust fund runs out for the legislation the president and i have put forth which
would not only get the highway trust fund but to do what we think should be done which is go to a time of investment in growth and stability and predictability in the transportation system. as we predicted back in january the time is almost up. this morning i sent letters to the state departments of transportation and travel agencies outlining steps when the highway trust fund approaches cero.bu +[o normally states received the annual allotment they for the bills and me paid those as we get them. but during the first week of august the highway trust fund will drop below a crucial point and we will stop reimbursing states and instead implemented new
process of cash management to move through this unfortunate period of time. each state is entitled to a certain percentage based on the annual formula. those same percentages will determine how much each state receives from whatever is left. they are paid not as they sent the bills in but every two weeks as money from the gas tax comes in in. this is the most equitable and prudent approach but there is no good option when we talk about a trust fund that is running short supply of dollars. i can tell you have been at the local level the most devastating part of this situation is many communities depend on the
federal government for significant dollars to get projects done and no matter how we a escalate around the country because the confidence level has dropped and projects are not even put on the table to reduce congestion, improve quality of life and enable commerce to move freely and efficiently. and it will be made worse unless congress acts which brings me to the next that congress can still act we have proposed an answer to this question we think is a good bill that meets the standards and the test that many have made clear to us but we have also expressed we will listen to other
ideas that emerge this is a crisis that can be avoided so thank you for giving me a few minutes to say that i look forward to your question. >> let me follow up on highway trust fund. we had a visit last week from the judiciary committee basically saying the chance to get immigration legislation out of congress you say that it could act but you expect them to? if you were waiting the odds for action wouldn't that be minimal? >> fin to go out to these
troubled times increasing around the country congestive in increasing the public will demand action. >> the cbo was saying they you need 8.1 billion and can you say where is now? can do not let it run dry? >> that number is a bigger we have estimated the trust fund will run short $63 billion for the rest of the year. i have said this and i will keep saying it has the country we have to stop playing small ball. it is critical. and i just saw a study a couple of weeks ago china has poured more concrete in the last three years than we
have been 100 that is emblematic of race to create the reliable transportation systems around the world. and then we have been a first-rate as a country. in and we cannot take for granted what has been given to us. >> that is also about general motors. yesterday they announced another recall of 8.5 million cars and then as though st. george's journal pointed out said it is greater than the combined sales what does it tell you about how effective that transportation department is protecting u.s. motorists and what changes if any on the safety activities?
>> keep in mind the time frame of which this issue should have come to light is exactly the same time with the set of issues giving rise to concerns with toyota. we learned an awful like it -- a lot as a department as part of the ig report to hearing is a delicate the situation internally as well. the recall activity is emblematic of the enforcement work of our transportation and department. the fact they you see this activity is part and parcel of the fact we have the stiffest penalty for anything we have ever levied
against the company. i would it take the position what has happened is a result of an awareness we will take action if we see violations. the second and final point is we use data to revive might the safety of automobiles and the reason why we have that is because sometimes automakers are in a better position to know of problems with the vehicle that is why there is a penalty with a five day delay to provide that's information. we will always have to work with industry on these issues to promote safety but as you point out it is far more expensive for a company to go through a situation like this then have to fix
which ones will be impacted and the reason why is because the states are basically drawing on the funds available from the federal government. and so, the governors and the state department of transportation are going to have to make judgments based on the more limited availability of dollars. how they are going to manage that in some states projects may be slowed down. in some states they may be stopped altogether and still other states they may have available cash advance dollars for the future withdraw.
so, i think the challenge for the governors are going to be how are you going to tell the project isn't going t to happenr that it hasn't been a longer schedule. the other complicated factor is that there is a limited window in many states around the country before actually doing construction work. so even if a state could slow down a project financially come in some cases it is impractical because they can't actually get the project advanced in the season of the construction so it is going to be all over the map. but the reality is no matter how you slice and dice it, it's going to be bad. so, the second question was -- i'm sorry. >> [inaudible] >> let me say it this way. i think people are feeling the impacts of the cumulative inability of the country to
chart long-term. whether it is potholes or longer travel times or what have you a pipeline of projects in the country that we need both maintenance projects in the new capacity is so great that the dollars we are spending to do that are not in the comparison to what we do. i think this is going to create a massive golf in the pipeline that's going to slow down activity. it's going to chill the design and engineering the project that would have been at the state and local levels and there are going to be projects that people were expecting next year or the year after year after that aren't going to happen o or happen as quickly because of what is happening. so i think people will see it in traffic and in the condition of the roads. i think they will see it in a ae lack of peabody to fix the
bridges and to put the new capacity in place. this would take years for some cases to get it done and if we take more it is only going to get worse. >> i have a question i guess it is the norwegian air international to serve the u.s. low-cost carriers. in the longer european application what is taking so long? >> there is a proposal to increase the cap on the charges and there are disputes about whether or not that should go up. the airlines do not like the idea of raising the fees. what are the prospects of raising that this year?
>> i think the aviation sector is one that is undergoing rapid change. it's been in the consolidation activity in the industry itself among the commercial carriers. we are very bullish on the work that is involved in the next gen as basically framing the airspace to the 21st century technology behavior will make the airspace more efficient and create more capacity in the airspace to make it cleaner that way. so, what's interesting is that over the next year hopefully once we get over this issue with the highway trust fund and expedition transportation is going to be the reauthorization bill. and i think there are some
issues in aviation that are on the table now about just how we structure and finance and set up the aviation sector to compete in the 21st century economy that would have a chance to work with the industry and other stakeholders to help resolve, but i think that's going to -- that time is going to allow all these issues to be laid bare in a much different dynamic than just in the budget season and i'm looking forward to having those conversations. i will say i think that conversation is going to be more complicated if we are still trying to deal with highways and transit next year. we need to get this done so we can create the space to be able to focus on aviation. >> automakeautomakers are in a r position to hear about the cars iand the federal government.
this is why we have a time of the review bu review but not int matter, no. given the crisis nature of the recall is there any sense of the administration that this does require a robust response for the government to be so active with the lawmakers when these issues resolved into tablet using the risk to the automake automakers? >> you take this situation and there was data that was reviewed as i said before, had there been anecdotal information provided to ntsa the gm had the information that we were
reviewing. sometimes it is a combination of the data and anecdotal information that is creates conditions to step up the activity on something. now as i said, we are going to go back and look at ourselves on this. it's not just -- it is figuring out whether there is something more than we can do. after toyota, one of the things that happened is that we worked with ibm to implement a system that actually analyzes the data much more rigorous than any point before. they have the issues before they emerged and that's been very successful. i don't think this is in the instance where ntsa didn't have
all of the information that would have been to its review. >> on the highway trust fund they were politically a touchy subject. is this the issue of raising the tax something that we could only expect after the midterm election or after the presidential election? >> what you are asking is a political question. we have decided that this issue is one that is important in the legislation in place we've talked about the use of the program tax reform as a way to pay for this put forth and the
reason based on the conversations that we've haven't had plenty of them with republicans and democrats on both the house and the senate side. one of the messages that i've got as many of them don't want to raise the rates and many of them don't want to increase deficits. so it helps us accomplish substantially more investment in transportation without running against those two principles. if congress comes up with a different combination and formulation to get their if they listen to what they have to say they have to speak with one voice. that's where i see the challenge. we have conversations are going on about the short-term. the senate has a lot more public discussion about this.
i have concerns we haven't heard as much from the house although there were folks think in about this and working on it. but the cliff is coming. i've been saying it for six months and i'm worried that we may find ourselves running over. there was a crash in delaware where they didn't get a lot of attention but >> there are about 4,000 fatalities a year into the administration put in one very specific provision that is
designed to change the way truck drivers are paid including in addition to the normal pay being paid by the mile they would get paid for time when they are at the loading dock. so i just wonder if you could talk a little bit about how big of a rarity it is for the administration to kind of change this economic system that we have where it seems like we have a lot of drivers out there on the road that are working really long hours and it has been shown to be a factor in a number of fatal crashes. >> that is an important question because when you talk about trucks or airplanes or what we saw in mature north of the new york area, tired of driving is bad writing. it's a risk not only to the
drivedriver into him or herselft to other folks that are on the road way or the airspace. and at this very moment there are discussions going on in the senate about relaxing some of our requirements that are designed to prevent that of driving while tired. and as an agency, we are strongly -- i can't emphasize how strongly opposed we are to relaxing these research-based rules that have been promulgated to protect the traveling public. but this is a real issue and it is an issue that is particularly challenging in the trucking industry where the economics are
aligned to promote for hours onn the road. so, our effort is to help assuage some of that. but make no mistake about our job is safety. that is what we are here to do. that is the central mission of our agency. and we will always take the side of promoting the public interest and public safet the public saff the economics proved more challenging. >> what they do a time check. we are about 9:28. we are going to go next to david wald, keith, paul, david harrison and martin. >> they do not recall any conversation. they didn't have these problems because they didn't show
everything it knew. what are we going to do so we don't have this problem again to carefully accompany those that have the bad internal problems? when will we be able to rely on the government for years of fierce? >> [inaudible] >> over the last ten years this has -- ntsa issued over 1200 recalls affecting 95 million vehicles and that doesn't even count the latest round of the recalls that have occurred. so, i don't want to give you the impression that the way this works is 100% of the time ntsa is responding to the timeliness warning from the car company and
then going back and look at the data to figure out whether it is going to happen. it happens all over the map. sometimes we issue the spot before an automaker has identified the problem. that happens. can we do better? of course in government we always do better and that's why i've asked ig to look at the circumstances of this particular incident to see if there are other protocols we can adopt that can improve our ability to handle the next problem. but in a sense, it is highly regrettable and our thoughts and prayers are with all of the families affected by this situation. when you talk about the recalls i would rather have a recall that allows us to get some
corrected we are working hard to make that happen everyday. first on the mission problems gm didn't resolve the condition issues into the latest recall has reports of at least three deaths. deaths. are they going to look at the new recalls to see if gm didn't beat the five-day requirement to report them in a timely fashion? >> as a standard practice, we will take a look at the recalls. there is always a sort of decision points whether this stems from the same as the previous ones. that determination will have to be made by ntsa so we obviously will be taking a careful look and will point out that work with the gm auto resolution to
the initial problem we have been able to extract from gm unprecedented commitments to fix things going forward. and so we are going to keep putting the screws on this until it gets right. >> how big of a concern across the industry as it is that they are moving out of position and do you think there are other auto companies that have similar problems? >> we are taking a look and wherat wherewe see problems, weo address them. it remains to be seen that it's something we are taking look at as you point out. mark? >> any roster of great governors in the 20th century [inaudible] the democrats were noncompetitive between 1976 to 2008 in the tar heel state and the presidential level of jimmy carter and barack obama.
since then, the state has turned deep right. what happened, what went wrong? virginia is all of a sudden more purple if not rather than his north carolina. what happened? >> well, i think several things. there may have been -- we may have been a little more optimistic after the 2008 elections about the turning of the corner. but i also think that redistricting played a very heavy role. in 2010 or the first time in more than a hundred years, north carolina did not have a state or state house or senate that was democratic control. and that resulted in gerrymandering goes to state
housethestatehouse, state senate u.s. congressional districts. now, i will point out that the president subsequent to that in the reelection campaign lost north carolina by less than 100,000 votes. and if that is one of the reasons why i still think north carolina at its essence is this state everyone thought it was before but it's going to take another tidal wave to prove that and we will see what happens in the future with some of those great folks that are down there and who i think will be running for things in the future. >> [inaudible] >> she has done a great job and i have a lot of hope that she will prevail. i have confidence in her, yes. >> "chicago sun-times." >> back in january in washington they proposed a fee on freight
going through cities to make up for the hazardous waste that they carry. acarry. at the time you were on defense on it. have you moved towards accepting or rejecting it at this stage, and what is the latest of the mayor in any well wants from you and if you have a moment left with is the da best advice ray lahood gave you when he turned it over to you? >> okay. he wants a lot of things for me. [laughter] the mayor emmanuel. but, on the issue of the fee for the hazardous material wit movig through communities, i think that's something that probably should be looked at.
our goal takes the position that there is more that we need to know. there's more that we need to know about the material itself. there's more wthere is more we w about the various pieces of the safety ecosystem that need to happen. we obviously have some work going on in a rulemaking. that's one of the things we found in this situation with the rock and the crude is that we have several different agencies in the equities even in the dot and sometimes you need resources to do field testing i and the agency that's on the front line that has a very small budget for the protected so tha protectinge to go to figure out whether they've got some resources. so we've asked for about a 40 million-dollar flexible fund to get us the ability to be no more right now to developing a plan over two years to dramatically increase our efforts on the safety front as we are still working on our
rulemaking and more than two dozen steps to this point to try to increase safety. your last question? >> it seems like you don't have an opinion on whether -- >> i wouldn't say that. i think it's something that needs to be explored, but in terms of what we need to do right now, we need to push this rulemaking and try to get that done. we need to have the resources and the agency to articulate an even broader set of steps that need to take place in this and those steps include what i would like to look at because it sounds like a good idea but something i would like to take a look at.
can you give a specific date that you are anticipating the trust fund will be in the beer in the genital august timeframe this is something that changes daily because remember that the way the trust fund works, this works on a reimbursement basis. so, we can tell you certainly -- [inaudible] we go below the $4 billion threshold in the beginning of august trade august 1 is in the letter today the actual balanced assumption, august and septemb september. historically we have lead the le market down around the 4 billion-dollar mark. that is the same cash cushion you need to meet the obligations of the state.
we are going to run below the 4 billion-dollar market by the end of august we will be at zero. use a $60 billion shortfall over four years. with respect to the gas tax, you spoke about how you have and basically seen a proposal that you could weigh in on but there is a bipartisan bill now in the senate from chris murphy to raise the tax. the chamber of commerce wants to raise the tax and democrats want to raise the tax. ray lahood wants to raise the tax. why is this administration dragging so much in on something that so many people support and think it's a logical solution to this. we said if the congress acts on something we will keep an open mind and that has been my
position all along. the reason that we have proposed what we propose is because we've heard from the members of congress they don't want to raise their rates. there hasn't been a vote on ma matt. we are open to what congress has to say that we have a proposal we would like to vote on, to >> you just want to narrow it down. >> i want to ask about whale trains. it's been almost a year now since the accident and you have this very important rulemaking going on. is there a lot of economic interest that are in that rulemaking concerned about how it's going to affect them and what it's going to cost them and on the other hand you have these areas in the country that trains go through albany, chicago, up in the seattle area that are very concerned about their
safety. what kind of guarantee can you give to the people in the community that are worried about their safety that you are not going to water down the safety in the rulemaking to satisfy these big economic interests? >> as i've sai i said before, wn more than two dozen measures very few of which have been very popular in the industry. and we've done that because of safety. i work on a rule that is organized around what is the safest approach to the movement of this crude oil particularly given the volumes in which it is moving around the country. we have these unit trains that are stacking in some cases 100 or more together, and that is a different caliber of problems than we have seen in the past, so that's the way it's going to be what is the right way to
structure the rule to make it as safe as possible? there are a lot of variables. as we said for many months there is the track quality and there's also any number of things. so, we want to strike the right balance with the balance to try to strike is a balance about safety and that is going to continue to be. >> you mentioned you're going to start where the tax revenue comes in. is there a contingency plan after the september 30 deadline for this entry authorized? >> a contingency plan for -- >> gas tax hasn't been reauthorized. >> there hasn't been a funding solution and there hasn't been a reauthorization extension.
we won't be able to spend money even if we have it so that is another part of the crisis. let me say in response to these questions that nothing i am saying is meant to understate the luck that many people are doing. barbara boxer has worked with her committee to prepare a bill. representative david kamp for the house ways and means committee on the very day that we announced our framework back in february he came forward with a framework that was very similar. and the bipartisan work of senator murphy and the senator corker. a lot of people are trying to weigh in here. but the constitutional fact is that until the congress does something collectively, we are stuck. and the country is going to be stuck into the gridlock in washington is going to translate to the gridlock at home.
>> the dot said last week that the faa would likely not need to september 2015 deadline on crafting the rules and i wanted to see if i could get a reaction to that from you. >> i want to get back to you on that. i think what we have tried to do over the last few months has been to really step up the work on this. that's why we have four of the six test sites still out. we have worked to put forth some rules to this point but we obviously have to work on this other rules here as well. so i would like to get a more continued response. ..
type -- test science we will not allow folks to just treat this like a wild west and just to whatever they want because we think there will be safety implications to that obviously. >> thanks. >> to unrelated questions. secretaries and government officials by allowing gm products. everything. do you feel comfortable with gm cars? and also -- >> you know, and terms of my
feelings of said this before will folks need to follow what is recommended with any recall active he. if they do that we feel like they're going to be fine. just followed up with the manufacturer or go to the. it checked out and keep it moving. so i don't have concerns about writing in the aegean, that i am writing in. terms of dnc, i can only say that i am looking forward to going as visitor. you know, i don't know if i have any great advice on that. think there are a lot of great cities in the running. all of them would be fantastic, and i am looking forward to hopefully going just says of passive visitor. >> mr. harrison. secretary.
a couple of times today, why use of tax reform as i got to -- stop-gap measure. are you concerned, move us away from a user fee system of funding transportation projects? >> now. for several reasons. one of the ditch we're trying to dig out of is so substantial that we need to have an inflection point. many to have a moment where we are actually going from fights over whether we can find at the same level we did the air last year to a discussion of how to get more investment in infrastructure. oral proposal would help busted out. second thing is that the current user fee system is broken. and it is broken because, you know, frankly, good reasons.
more efficient. wherever you said the gas tax, the curve is still downward facing. so that means that at some point in the future we reach the very same point. you know, i think what our proposal enables is a moment in time where we start to think differently about how we support our and for structures as to. additional funding in place. we have not even talk to many of the policies we think are important right now but focus on getting projects done faster, focused on changing some of the dynamics to the determining how to move forward. all those things are important there will always be a user fee
component. i don't want to say that's not the case, but we need to be thinking differently. also public-private partnerships are to be part of a car recession. >> you are willing to sort of a band of this notion that the transportation system should be funded rather than look for another. >> i think there are a lot of options. some user fee based, others different. i don't think that the conversation about where we're headed is going to stop with the passage of our bill, but i think what our bill does is provide an answer that is actually politically feasible given the congress we have right now. it gives us four years of certainty and it gives us time to breathe so that we can actually have this discussion without the next crisis around the corner. >> npr.
>> ask for more money. >> couple of questions. the first one directly. >> in no, we said we are open, but i can't, you know, i often tell you that we have a proposal that we think it's politically supple that actually works were transportation system, that we think is the best solution right now, but i'm not going to speculate on that. and just wanted chilly that we have expressed openness, and that is where we are. >> today the maryland the tax went up again. it went up last july 1st. today is an inflation trigger increase. fifteen are 20 states. and both, the public is not as opposed to this as some might think.
the business and labour community the of ministration, a confidential bill. but i can tell you because i've spent the time working on this bank. it's a good bill. we are taking the position, it is not just a question of funding. a critically important question. it's also, are there other ways to create more capacity within the system? are there ways to engage public-private partnership? we have trillions of dollars a money sitting on the sidelines not being put to work infrastructure in this country.
so we have to pay for. >> fallout. corporate taxes, all of these, the short-term, what is the administration's vision once and for all solving the nation's funding issues? is a moving away and instead funding transportation out of the general fund? is it a natural -- national bmg, a combination of public-private partnerships? >> i don't think the american public, the many stakeholders understand house of you this prices -- crisises. the average person pays about a hundred dollars in la our system are now. and in most days the american society of civil engineers
estimates the dollar paying $200 from a $300 depending on what state your in, popples or what have you, buy new tires, whenever it is. people are paid for this problem they're paying for it. but those blocks away in some cases to my disaggregated. and, you know, i think other host of questions involve your, but will we need right now is a new long-term stability in the system. that is what our bill is trying to get. >> last question. >> how much relies on harmonization? more than ten or 15. infrastructure in the metro area that does come from propagation.
>> more highways. people were paying two, three, four, $500 a month. offset the legislature. put more money. people paying a pocket. is this something you worry about? >> essentially a prohibition that the federal level to that. there is no feature our bill the pace with the federal piece of funding. you know, that's not how we pay for bill. but our bill does lift that ban and offers to those who wish to look at tolling as an option to apply to the department of transportation to request the ability to tool to read now, you know, i tend to think that if
they're is a commitment to do maintenance on the facility or to invest in congestion relieving systems that there may be acceptable ways to see that happen the country. this is that it -- we recognize, create a little more flexibility at the state level four folks to be enterprising and figure out how to get things done. >> if you added additional toll lanes. >> in theory, yes. as i said, any proposal would have to come to the department and be looked at independently. >> here comes the last ceremonial softball the plight. he told the "washington post" that if you could get one person
from the private sector the lp. i want to see a view of reached out since you've come to washington. >> absolutely. one of the things i really frustrated about a analytics can be used it is a place where there's a lot of room for us to do that. when a project comes in the door and its permanent historically it has come by merrill. there are big stack of documents, from one area to another within government. takes years for projects to get
moving. and so we are looking to digitize the process. we're looking to go from having departments to sequential reviews to concurrent reviews. how we can improve performance going forward is something we think of as useful. we hope to do more. >> thank you. >> thank you, secretary. >> thanks, everybody. [inaudible conversations]
>> founded by a revolutionary war veteran from south carolina. when he realize that he was born to die and the slaves would end up being sold or would just become, slaves he wrote in his well that at the time of his daughter's death the plantation would be sold in the money used to pay the way to immigrate to liberia were freed slave colony had been established. they called and talked about him going back to africa, but you have to understand, these people had been here for three, four, five generations. there were going back to the continent originally inhabited. it was quite the risk. so they took the culture that the new here there.
after all, they're the ones who built this. >> the preflight is built. and factory place from louisiana , georgia, virginia, kentucky. and all people from those states in the u.s. >> to explore the history and larry live this weekend saturday at noon eastern on c-span2 book tv and sunday at 2:00 p.m. on america's streets tv. >> former vice president dick cheney has written a biography about james madison examining his political philosophy and presidency.
as dick says it's almost enough to make you want to run for office. [laughter] >> almost, almost. we are glad to be back here tonight and i've had the opportunity to visit the nixon library and museum on a number of occasions and served in the nixon administration during the first term and so i'm always pleased to come back and visit this part of the world and be reminded of a very important time in our history. the president did a superb job and i was happy to be a part of his administration. we are here tonight and we should explain at the outset way we are here together. the fact is i was born in lincoln, nebraska and lynne was born in casper wyoming and in 1950 were when i was 13 years old about ready to go to the eighth grade that my dad moved the family to casper wyoming. it was a good thing because
lynne and i grew up together. i first took her out when she was 16 years old. we will celebrate our 50th wedding anniversary, august. a bosco but if dad had picked montana instead of wyoming of course i would never have married lynne. she would have married someone else -- he said the other night than he would have been vice president of the united states. [laughter] [applause] >> i don't recall that was one of the jokes you are supposed to tell. >> i'm a freelancer now but i'm unchained. we are here tonight to talk specifically about a magnificent book that lynne has written about james madison. it has gotten great reviews and we are on the book books service so to speak and i have been to the nixon events here before
sponsored by the nixon library when i had other books to write to publish and now i wanted to have an opportunity for lynne 2% hers. as i say it is a superb book about our nation's fourth president in the plan is that i will ask her questions and she will respond and at the end of that. at that time we will open it up and take some questions from the audience as well too. with that let me begin by asking why madison? what made you decide james madison needed another biography? >> before you get there i wanted sam so grateful to dick for joining me on this book to her and i started referring to them to him as my arm candy. [laughter] i have known i was interested in madison for a very long time. i've had the privilege of serving on the bicentennial commission for the constitution in 1987 and it was than i first
began to understand how magnificent madison's accomplishments were and yet how little recognized he was in terms of what he had accomplished in his political life. it wasn't until five years ago that i became serious about writing a book and it has been a labor of love. i only hope that you will enjoy the book as much as i enjoyed writing it. he was the architecture of the constitution, the architecture of the bill of rights. he was crucial to the establishment of the first government under the constitution. he was president during the first floor under the constitution and he performed if not magnificently in all those jobs at least very well. at the end of his presidency john adams who was kind of a sour figure and not given to make and complements easily,
john adams wrote to james madison's administration had covered itself in more glory than any of his predecessors which is a great compliment because his predecessors were washington, jefferson and adams himself. so i do think he has been underappreciated and it's been really so much fun. i know five years of labor does not sound like fun but discovering things, being able to put it into a form that i hope would reach a wide audience and as the book is called, reconsidering james madison's life. >> which was the most important contribution. the contributions were enormous obviously but if you had to pick just one what would it be? >> it would have to be the constitution. i think he was a genius and the reason is he was the kind of genius he had is that he was
able to break through conventional thinking. when everybody else was thinking one way madison didn't necessarily accepted. he would think of other possibilities and he did that in a the case of the constitution and in the case of establishing a great republican which is what we are. the conventional wisdom was that you didn't have a great republic rated great republic where people voted for representatives for themselves, representative government, that it would be to lose over a long set of land planned and it would fall apart unless you had monarchical power a king or a monarch at the center. madison just thought that was not so. he thought in fact the danger of a republic is that one faction would dominate and oppress everyone else and madison's genius was to see that if you had many factions as there would
be in a larger public than no single one was likely to be -- to become oppressive and that was the rationale for the constitution that was produced in philadelphia. it was his genius to see through what everyone else believed time and again and to transform the world by doing it. >> you talk about his relationship with the other founders, george washington for example. >> you know we think sometimes what the founders as sitting around having a polite conversation and all of them having the greater good in mind at all times. it's much more interesting to realize them as they were which was people who firmly believed in their point of view and are willing to fight to see it succeed. in the beginning madison was washington's chief lieutenant. when the first government under the constitution began, now this
will be familiar to many of you in politics, washington had an aide write his inaugural address and aide produced a 72 page disaster. washington wrote to madison and asked him please come to mt. vernon in hell. so madison did and he wrote washington's inaugural address. he did a very good job of it. after washington delivered the address madison who was the leader of the congress, wrote the congress's response to madison after washington got it. thank you, you laugh even though i got it wrong. he wrote congresses response to the not real address in washington thought madison was so good at this kind of thing he asked him, madison to write washington's reply back to the congress. [laughter] it's hard to imagine how this voice was echoing off every wall. i'm not sure there has been another time in history when one
man has been so influential at the beginning of an administration that way madison was in the beginning with washington. >> as you talk about the constitution convention obviously there were battles over various provisions of the constitution. we ended up with article i and section part of one, two and three and it took a long time, many many hours of days and worked to put it all together. can you cite the specific compromise and the most important provision that they were arguing about that they were ultimately able to resolve? >> it was the thing we learned in the history books about the big states and the small states and of course the big states wanted states to be represented proportionately according to the population. the small states wanted to be representative of states and we all know the compromise.
madison was appalled at that. he really thought that there should be proportional representation across-the-board. he had gone into the constitutional convention thinking the great threat to their public were the states. he called them the evil states as they had en so irresponsible in the articles of federation repressing religious freedom, churning out money. rhode island was especially guilty. it was called the rogue island. churning out money and then this is what rhode island did, passing laws that made it necessary or merchants to accept that depreciated money for a debt that had been incurred. maybe they were getting paid off at a penny on the dollar and the states for taxing one another, oppressive one another actually. they were conducting their own foreign-policy cell madison thought the states needed to be
controlled and when it turned out that the compromise was to have the states representative as states of my proportionately in the senate he was very -- and it took a couple of days to get around to accepting that. >> what conceivably made them think they needed a vice president? [laughter] >> you know that's kind of an eternal question isn't it? well it had to do with the electoral college and every elector had to vote so they finally got to the left world college when they could agree on anything else. so the alternate at that point was to let congress choose the president and just imagine how different our presence would have been if the congress was choosing. he would not have had a ronald reagan. next-line and, no i don't think you would have had a nixon either. he would have had plenty of speakers of the house though go on to be president.
the electoral college. everybody gets two votes and again the big states and the small states. the small states are worried that the big states will always allow to president. so to assuage their concerns the deal was made that you could only cast one vote, one of those two votes for someone from your own state. the other had to be cast for somebody from another state which would give the small states a better chance. but then they started worrying and you have all played this kind of game, you want that one vote for your own guy in your own state to be really important. you throw away the second row. you expended on jim who doesn't have a chance. to prevent that were finally getting to the answer, they invented the vice presidency. the idea was that the person you got the second highest number of votes would then become vice president. that seemed like a pretty good idea but then they started worrying what was he going to
do? [laughter] and it's so interesting to see how this thing builds up. they decided they needed a job and they would make him president of the senate. by the end of the constitutional convention there were two delegates who were so worried about the vice president of the executive branch being part of the legislative branch about his violating the separation of powers. two delegates, eldritch dairy -- randolph of virginia. no, i'm sorry. aldridge at gary and george mason of virginia specifically decided in the vice presidency as reasons they wouldn't sign the constitution. they called it that dangerous office so there you go. a. [laughter]
>> during the course of his career but in terms of temperament in the constitution and that's how you describe it i guess alexander hamilton became an important player in all of that. can you talk about what it was that led to their major disagreements and confrontation? >> first maybe it's important to understand that he and hamilton were not buddies exactly. they were friendly colleagues. they wrote the federalist papers together with a little help from john jay and the story of writing the federalist papers if you don't mind i will just -- divert a little bit here. the story of writing the federalist papers is so interesting because it was done at such speed in such haste. i was explaining to a college audience from colleges and universities in this area will appreciate, that would madison did during one period of time
during 40 days was the equivalent of writing a 10 page paper every other day. now you could do that. that doesn't seem impossible but the papers became immortal. so writing philosophy, or writing politics, writing an effort to convince people to support the constitution at breakneck speed the printer was putting the beginning parts of the essays into print often before they were finished. so madison and hamilton respected one another until hamilton became secretary of the treasury under george washington and began to make his financial plans clear. madison was jewel from the beginning but he eventually particularly when the issue of establishing a national bank came up, he was deeply concern
concerned. he didn't think that bank was a bad idea but at the constitutional convention in fact he thought it was such a good idea but at the constitutional convention he had proposed giving the congress the power to grant charters which is what you needed if you wanted to establish a bank. however the constitutional convention it turned out turned it down. congress didn't have that power and that was madison's problem. hamilton was simply running roughshod over the strict number of powers that congress had been given. there was no power to grant charters and therefore madison thought you should not establish a bank. he lost the fight that he went on to kind of when the war i guess you would say. he established the first opposition political party. parties didn't have any better reputation than than they do now so again this is
counterintuitive. it was against the conventional wisdom that said parties were divisive, they were noisy. we didn't want them in republic. madison said our high guess we do. a government without opposition is a little more than a monarchy so they organized the first party in order to change to defeat away that hamilton was trying to carry the government to make it so strong that madison thought it was something the constitution had not contemplated. by founding this political party he managed to get jefferson elected president in 1800 jefferson like madison was a small government guy. >> one of the most important functions that we have seen obviously throughout her history is the role of commander-in-chief. who is going to run the wires and began charge of the military and of course madison as you
mentioned in the opening was the first president ever to have to conduct a war under the constitution, and the way that power was vested in the presidency strikes me as a great story but it's not how it started out. can you talk about that? >> the proposal of the constitutional convention there was just about to go through was that the congress and among its delegated powers was the power to make war. madison, his mind was so quick. his intellect just instantly grasped what would be the results of various proposals. he leapt to his feet on the floor of the constitutional convention and changed the word make to declare. congress would have the power to declare war. he did this in part because he had seen what ms congress may do things when they were in charge of war.
he had been a member of the confederation congress where there was no executive and the congress would decide. they would write to george washington and send them south and if they would realize there was more trouble in the south and they would say send light force kerry to the north. it simply was no way to run the war so he leapt to his feet and said congress has the power to declare war but what that did was make the president commander-in-chief once more had been declared. >> how did he do as commander-in-chief? the british marched on washington, burn down the capital, burn down the white house. was he a good commander in chief? >> he was patient. [laughter] like lincoln had trouble with generals. in the war of 1812, the generals
were people who has served in the revolution and they were getting a little bit long in the tooth. as -- they want as brave as they might've been in their younger years. one general who was supposed to invade canada near to generate over the border became so alarmed at the rumors that turned out to be true actually that the british had formed a strong alliance with the indians who are great warriors that the americans might have to face this. he just turned around and destroyed it. he not only didn't invade canada he gave the british detroit. so generals as they will were with lincoln were a problem. not so with admirals. the navy started under john adams had eight or nine by the work 1812. the british had more than 100
warships. that the navy had trained all that time and brought new and younger blood. to man the warships. you can't just mothball and navy and then build it up again so the navy kept going all that time. as a result there were magnificent naval victories in the war of 1812. and when people like general paul were playing from the british and indian allies -- who was indeed isaac hall was commanding the constitution and the constitution of course the uss constitution most famously encountered the british frigate carriere and just wiped her out. part of the reason was that our frigates though they were far far fewer were better built in the cannonballs from the carrier
just bounced off the side of the constitution in many instances which is why she gained the name of old ironsides. so the there were splendid naval victories and toward the end of the war we were developing a new class of generals. when i say madison was patient, he suffered through those first generals. i don't know what choice the commander-in-chief has a map and absolutely helped celebrate the glories of the navy. he also changed his mind and he was not afraid to do that when circumstances change. he had long regarded armies and navies is too expensive and is a threat to the republic. too easily used against the citizenry. by the end of the war of 1812 was suggesting to the congress that they expand the navy and provide for a standing army.
>> how would you evaluate him overall? how was he looked upon? was reviewed by the public by his command is somebody who was successful or not very successful? >> his contemporaries, madison was one of those fortunate few that left the presidency highly-regarded by all of his countrymen. we don't pay much attention to the war of 1812 but it was regarded by americans as evidence that we should by gosh be recognized on the world stage. we deserve to be recognized on the world stage and that the rest of the world begin to do that especially as you pointed out after andrew jackson just beat the heck out of the british at the battle of new orleans. >> one of the most intriguing aspects of the researcher came up with had to do with madison's health and i think it's a major
contribution from a historical standpoint, something the reviewer said to matt. he had an affliction throughout his entire life and yet he was able to achieve these phenomenal objectives under extraordinary circumstances and clearly one of the most important founders. can you tell us about that both what his problem was and. >> it was one of those puzzles to mean the beginning. people called madison shockley but she wasn't. they said he was sickly and indeed you could see that he was sick from time to time but he also between the episodes of whatever it was was a marvelously energetic taking 1000-mile trips by respecting carriage with lafayette and another one of jefferson, traveling in days when travel wasn't easy between his home in
montpellier and wherever the capital was new york philadelphia washington. undertaking just those routine trips i have often thought of something none of the scholars who have called him sickly could manage. during the war of 1812 he was on horseback for 60 hours when washington was burned. there was something odd here. he was sick a lot but between sickness he was quite well. there is a letter that he wrote towards the end of his presidency and it hasn't been published yet. i certainly didn't discover it but i think it was the first person that really paid attention to it. it's at firestone library at princeton men's draft of the ma that madison wrote in which he says he was subject and this is the quote sudden attacks somewhat resembling epilepsy and suspending the intellectual functions. well nobody had taken him
seriously really. i think people just wanted to shy away from it. it was kind of a difficult topic to figure out health and 18th century but i decided i would take it seriously. you can see areas in this light gray did have these episodes. his description of the sudden attacks in fact fits quite well with what neurologists today call complex partial seizures which is a mild form of epilepsy and i think that was it. the first he had few procedures as a child. long febrile seizures as a child is often part of the syndrome that involves seizures, epileptic seizures as an adult. so he had -- it fits right into all that and he suffered the first at princeton when he was
in college. you know you could just see it. want to say he knew what he was talking about and i take him at his word he fell into this period of deep to spontaneity and he worried about his soul when he worried he would not live long when he worried that he wasn't good enough and he was lucky. he found doctors come his family did that urged him to exercise. that being said would help. it didn't in the seizures but he was remarkably fit which doesn't fit with the sickly mist. i think he decided once he had taken his physical health in hand he decided to take his soul when hand. he was not going to believe all the things people said about epilepsy. people said if you had epilepsy or seizures are assembling it that you are evil, that you are full of sin and you are even possessed by the devil. madison finally just decided he
didn't have to believe god. i really think this fed into his strong support for freedom of religion. people can believe whatever religion or no religion if they want and to his strong support for freedom of conscience, intellectual freedom. nobody should have to believe anything that he or she thinks in himself is wrong. and that idea liberated him and i think indeed helped liberate us all because he led the way for freedom of conscience, for intellectual freedom and religious freedom more than any other founder even more than jefferson. >> what happened to the autobiography? did he finish its? >> he didn't. it's just a draft. this happens after you've been in political life are well. people write and say what you just tell me something about yourself and this fellow wanted
to publish them, whatever madison sent him. so madison started the autobiography but he didn't finish it. he decided subsequently not now to talk about as a poet -- epilepsy i think because it was so demonized that he decided it was more trouble than it was worth it call all of that down in his head at the end of his presidency. >> he still had this amazing ability to perform as he did year after year after year. >> i really do think that seeing him as having complex partial seizures explained how he can be sick, sick, sick time and again but in between he was perfectly well, full of energy. the energy spent at the constitutional dimension was from him at all. >> dolly. >> oh dolly, don't you love dolly? she was beautiful. men stopped in the street of philadelphia when she walked
past she was so beautiful. she had dark hair and pale skin, blue eyes and ruby red lips, the whole package and madison was smitten when he saw her on the street. he asked his good friend and this will be a surprise to you, his good friend aaron burr. [laughter] they had gone to princeton together. this was before aaron burr got in trouble. he asked him to introduce him to dolly. she received him in her paller -- further. she wore a bar brawl red dressing glass beads and he was a goner. they married a few months later and she was a political asset. i am always kind of skeptical about how important wipes are. i'm not sure anymore it's as important as it might've been where we sometimes think it is.
more and more wives have their own careers so they aren't essential to getting their husbands elected. but dolly was because in those days the congressional caucuses pick the presidential nominees. there were no conventions but the caucus on the republican side and a federalist side picked the nominees and dolley made all of those members of congress very happy. they were miserable. washington was just getting started. they all lived in a sporting houses. one senator said we are and sensible like bears from talking nothing but politics from morning to night. there was no place to go. there was one club in washington that specialized in world dancers. [laughter] i know, i'm not sure either. [laughter] baby tightrope walker's? that's my story. i don't know.
so these men were so happy when the madisons opened the doors to their house on the f street and welcome them to matter the party. they played cards. dolley took a little snuff alongside henry klay. they shared a snuff box. it was just warm and genial and they didn't mind if you talk politics. jefferson was very different. he didn't like people to talk politics around him. he likes things move you know and calm. so he didn't invite people from both parties to dinner. he would only invite people from one party at a time that the madisons mix it up. people love dolley and she loved them and they began to feel not only great respect for madison but i think great ones because of dolley's entertaining. there's even contemporary testimony to have having been in some not insignificant measure responsible for his getting the nomination in 1808.
>> james and dolley were married for 42 years. >> not as long as us. >> in august as i mentioned we will be married 50 years. tell me what was the highpoint of those 50 years? [applause] i'm going to repeat the question. what was the highpoint of those 50 years for you? [laughter] >> not the 42 years with dolley? >> now. >> i knew is dangerous to have you asked me questions. well you know one event i can think of dick% sure to light that think people don't often see you in. darth vader is the image. [laughter] by folks let me tell you he's a real romantic. for the 50th anniversary of
our first aid, now what year was that? >> it would have been 1958 please? >> it was 2008 and dick arranged a surprise party for me to celebrate the first anniversary of our day. all husbands in the audience try to top that. it was very special. he invited all of our college friends. even have the good sense to tell me we were going to the british ambassadors for dinner. now you don't want to take somebody to a surprise party especially and i think it is true especially a woman if she doesn't have on a nice dress and you don't want to take her for harris and rollers or whatever the equivalent nowadays is. so he got me to dress up and he told me this story weeks in advance. and then they annual gridiron dinner happened in washington. as vice president, president, vice president and vice president and sousley what i said at the head table. after his telling me we were
going to the british embassy that night i was sitting next to the british ambassador. [laughter] so as dick put it i had to read him in. he had to tell him the cover story and the british ambassador didn't say a word and the surprise was complete. it was really wonderful night. he had a cake made that was tall and had a little oddly sticking out of it with blond hair but the cake was a red and it was a skirt and he did that because on our first date i were a red formal with a big red skirt. [applause] are you blushing? >> no. [laughter] >> yeah just like dolley
madison. one more question in more question and then we will open it up to the audience and this is a difficult one obviously. what was madison's greatest disappointment with respect to the constitution in those formative years in the republic? >> well you know he wasn't entirely pleased with the constitution when it was finished what he thought it was probably the best human beings could do so it became a fervent defender. at the end of this his life, throughout his life he hated slavery. he wrote a letter as a young man in which he said i'm going to do everything i can to become independent of slave labor. and to get off his father's plantation or farm as they called it, let an independent life in which he wouldn't be dependent upon that dreadful institution. and he tried but he didn't really have a long time to try at it because he became involved in public life and creating the
constitution and so forth. so he didn't succeed. jefferson also hated slavery and he didn't succeed either at freeing himself from it though i don't think, i don't think he had such a goal, such a firm goal as madison did. but at the end of long lives they both died owning slaves and you could see him toward the end of his life clinging desperately to the only thing he could think of that might help which was the american colonization society. one of the problems by the 1830s was that if you freed slaves they couldn't stay in virginia. there was a law that prevented that. neighboring states pass laws so that freed slaves couldn't move their so there was was this idea of finding a place in africa and paying the way for free slaves to go to liberia. the problem for many one of which was that freed slaves or
slaves generally thought is the united states is their home. the slaves of montpellier had been in virginia as long as madison's family had soap was a failed scheme from the beginning. you could see him just clinging to it not able to think of anything else. that could give him a kind of hope he had as a young man that this awful institution would be done away with. >> maybe just to wrap up this part, say a word about his madison were here tonight, would he think that we have been true to the basic principles embodied in his work? >> i think he would be appalled at the size and scope of the federal government. he would think that we moved far away from the limited powers that were given by the constitution to the federal government. he might be somewhat gratified though his disappointment would
be much greater at seeing ways in which the constitution does still prove itself relevant time and again. i was earlier telling some people a story that it just occurred to me in the last few weeks the supreme court is considering a case that involves whether you should -- with the police should have the authority to search your cell phone if they stop you for a traffic violation. there were two instances in which this happened in those two cases are argued before the supreme court. it's interesting you know when i mention this to people that will say well that's wrong or they will say well that's right. maybe the guy who was stopped was a terrorist. and what's interesting and what i try to emphasize is that's not how we decide things in our society how you feel about it, what do you think oh that's right or that's wrong. we turn to the constitution to make these decisions and the
supreme court justices will go back to a constitution that was formed so long before there were cars, so long before there were cell phones but the justices will have to go back to the fourth amendment which madison wrote that talks about citizens not being subject to what the phrase? unreasonable search and seizure. so he would be gratified a think that the constitution still lives so there is an enormous effort to ignore it. >> without sanding is that it might. >> let's thank lan and vice president cheney. [applause] they have agreed to a few questions which we will do good for the book signing and i'm going to start that this young man who is from what school?
>> chapman university. >> in her question is? >> you talk about how he was viewed by his peers. could you talk about how he was viewed by the public whether they like him are regulated like you meant he kind of started the government. >> well madison wasn't the kind of person, if he were alive today he wouldn't be the fellow that above everyone else out of the way to get to the tv cameras. i don't think that all of his deeds in the early republic were fully appreciated by his fellow citizens. certainly by the time his presidency was over he was deeply appreciated. his contemporaries were most enthusiastic about his job as commander-in-chief. i do think that has really bee been -- good question. >> from corona delmar high school. >> what is madison's most
significant domestic president? >> i'm sorry? >> significant domestic president. >> significant precedent achievement may be. well the constitution. but we had was a country that was growing increasingly unstable during the articles of the confederation went madison did with the constitution and this idea that faction would be put against faction, ambition against ambition is to create a stable environment. alexander hamilton is often accredited for the economy we have today, for the vital economy that the united states has put madison's role in giving businessmen and the rest of us a stable environment in which to live was a major contribution. >> cara wood's corona delmar high school. what precedent to james madison
said during his presidency? >> what precedence? well i think he set an important precedent a really important one as commander-in-chief. there was a seditious movement going on. in the northeast particularly dated like the war, new england and some in new york. they hated the word because it was very damaging to the that part of the country economically. there was so much anger about the war that there was talk of secession and even some organization towards secession. it was even an effort to strangle loans for the war by going after the people, the big bankers in the northeast convincing them not to fund the war so i think when madison refused to put down that kind of protest, it was free speech. you are welcome to stand up and say whatever you want and you
are not going to be oppressed. when madison let free speech continue even though in my opinion a lot of it was seditious, i think he said -- said that very important precedent. it was certainly one that his countrymen appreciated. he knew that you didn't want to suppress those rights that the republic had been created in part to protect. so that's it. >> mat with corona delmar high school. which president in the last century would you best equate to james madison? >> you know it is a good question but i find myself as an historian thinking that you have to take the founders and abraham lincoln and put them in an entirely different category read
not because they were different people but because the challenges they faced were so enormous. it's hard to think of somebody like franklin pearce. maybe you could include franklin roosevelt in there to match. if you look at presidents who faced existential challenges, if what they were doing good work out there would go the republic. the founders faced that kind of existential challenge and i think have ingrained themselves in our national story because of their overcoming the challenges they face. lincoln face that and i think you could say franklin roosevelt did too. so i guess the last century in the 20th century may be roosevelt in terms of the challenges that we faced and overcame. >> from casper wyoming. >> oh wow that's my home. >> jan gray.
about madison heights, he was only 5 feet 4 inches and he was our shortest president. i wanted to know in your research did you find out if he had any troubles because of that especially with regard to his relationships with women? as you know he didn't get married until he was a lot older and dolley was 17 years younger than he was. and mr. vice president i want to ask you about bald presidents. [laughter] eisenhower in the last 750 years is all made bald president. i was wondering if you think there's going to be any more. >> if i may go first. >> please. [laughter] >> i have always believed in the principle that my good friend al simpson went by from the senate.
al used to say we all have so many hormones and if you want to waste yours growing hair that's okay by me. [applause] >> a young lady from redwoods californian. >> i review mentioned how important it was to madison the freedom of conscience so i am wondering how you feel about the fact that the whistleblower who exposed the torture program is the only one currently sitting in prison for its? >> well i mean the supreme court has wrestled with this too. you are welcome to believe anything you want to. you are welcome to say almost anything but what you can't do is violate national security
ordinances that would endanger the country. edward snowden is a case in point. i think he is a trader and i feel it's so, does not bode well for our society that he is being valorized for having been a trader to his country. [applause] [inaudible] >> i'm sorry you need a microphone. >> maybe this is off point. [applause] >> i respect your right to speak your mind but i also reserve the right for myself and lynne
cheney not to answer your question. [applause] >> dr. frank cannon in the back of the room. >> you spent five years living with in addition to the vice president living with james madison. >> and the other 45 to dick. >> can you talk about writing a book like this and where the papers and did you talk to madison descendents and if you could ask james madison one question that emerge from your research what would that question be? >> that last is just really a puzzler. i have to think about that while we talk. the madison papers are in different places. you have to travel a little bit. you have to go to princeton for example because they were unpublished papers there. you have to go to philadelphia. there are unpublished papers about madison's family in the
historical society both 30 volumes of madison's papers are on line. they have been digitized and done a wonderful job of digitizing them. dolley's papers as well have been done by the university of virginia. research is so much easier now than it has been before. i think -- i was chairman of the national endowment for the humanities at a time and i used to be appalled at some of the things that we funded but if they were to increase the endowment budgets so they could make the funding of the founders papers and digitize them so citizens can have ready access i think i would be a good expenditure. you know frank i can't give you a serious answer. i just have to think about what i would ask madison so my unserious answer is i would say how tall were you? [laughter] this has been disputed. someone said 5 feet 4 inches and his favorite aide said 5 feet
6 inches. there's a confusion about whether the aid was trying to be flattering. i am 5 feet tall and i think 5 feet 4 inches would have been just fine. [applause] >> a young man who studied at singapore and is a student at pepperdine university. >> my name is jacob young. pertaining to james madison's life is there a particular piece that maybe the history books are missing that you think there's not enough information on and you'd be most interested in learning more about? >> there were two things that really stuck out to me as i went through, personal things. this whole idea that he wish i is the 20th century invention. his contemporaries said nothing about that. they noted that it was a canny politician that learned the trade of not speaking before you needed to, being respectful to your elders when you are a young politician, and not speaking
carelessly. madison spent a great deal of his life cleaning up after jefferson who was prone to speaking carelessly. so the fact that he wasn't shy, i spent a lot of time showing in the book that in fact he wasn't and then his sickly thing. that was really important to just get rid of this myth that he was so burdened by his help at all times and he couldn't really get out of bed. you just can't see this vital politician is a man who was that way and i think the idea that being shy and sickly has damaged his reputation and i hope my book will do something to restore it. >> a gentleman from orange california with a real quickie. >> mr. vice president where did you guys go on your first date? [laughter] >> oh well. [laughter]
actually we went to informal thrown by one of the high school girls social club's. we went with some good friends and we double dated. lynne did wear an amazing red gown and afterwards we stopped in what and casper is called ceo. >> now stopped. >> it gets better. we hadn't been there very long when we discovered that some friends of ours including somebody to dated lynne before i could have snuck up and let the air out of the tires of our car. so we spent a lot of time creeping back down to the filling station so we could get air in the tires and by then of course we were violating lynne's curfew. so i was very concerned at that point that we had violated the
curfew the first date and i knew i would be in trouble with somebody. the great thing about it in retrospect was that lynne's mother was the secretary to the police chief and casper wyoming and we didn't make a move that night that hadn't been reported to her at home. [laughter] >> one last question from a student from chapman university. >> you shared some of the most influential authors that implements james madison in his writings and opinions. >> i'm sorry the microphone wasn't close enough i couldn't hear. >> can you share some of what you think would be the most influential works or authors that helped madison shaped his opinions and believes in writing the federalist papers? >> in the run-up to the constitutional convention he undertook a study project of
years reading classical accounts of previous attempts at establishing a republic. he saw where they had gone astray and that helped inform his proposals at the constitutional convention so classical sources were important to him. but practical sources were important to him as well. he not only wrote what had happened to pass republics, he wrote what was wrong with the current run -- one and that he had learned from stating -- serving in state government and the continental congress. it's a nice pairing. he not only undertook this philosophical exploration. he undertook an understanding of the art of politics. he was a genius at both ends so his reading was part of that reading sources like montague but also his practical experience was crucial to his successes.
christine jordan didn't there nests those things that separate us are still very much alive. >> your phone calls, e-mails, and tweets on islamic fundamentalism, on terror, and the current instability in the middle east to live for three hours sunday at noon eastern on book tv.is is just under an hou.
>> welcome to a special edition >> welcome to a special edition. we are here at the birthplace of the actual to party. [applause] [laughter] the real one.[applause] i will be your host. i'm ryan grim of the huffington post with two people that have searched the top of amazon "new york times" bestseller list.
the first one, l. 21st century by professor thomas piketty. [applause] and senator elizabeth warren a fighting chance. [applause] senator warren's book makes the case that the system is rigged on behalf of the rich and against the middle class. >> [inaudible] fortunately i won't be doing much of the talking. these two are going to be doing it. so, professor piketty's book makes the same case except he makes the empirical point of this has been happening for 250
or more years. so, senator warren come i want to start with you. tell us what you have made. >> i get to describe your book in front of you. i like it. [laughter] i saw this as a book that had a pretty straightforward pieces. the rich get richer and everybody else gets to poor. that kind of shows with this book is about and has drawn the data together to show how this has happened across countries, across time. and i have to say the first thing i thought when i read this book or one of the first things is i thought george bush senior was right. remember when he called trickle-down economics do voodoo economics? he assembled a lot of data to show that while does not trickle-down, it trickles up
from everyone else to those that are rich and he demonstrates that it keeps happening as i said over time and country. >> does that sound about right? [inaudible] >> in the strategic defense and also between the countries and within countries as everyone has said so the institutions in the market can make a difference. right now the real level of the
minimum wage is less than quite peculiar in the country that has a lower wage. it was invented in this country. the education institution can produce different outcomes. >> going to the point whether or not this is an extra bold whether it has to be this way, these are two points that are made simultaneously. it started with a question on trickle-down economics because i think that the math behind trickle-down economics is if we let the rich maintain more of their wealth, somehow that is going to flow down to everyone
else and it will make us all healthier. the first part of the message is this is simply not true. it doesn't work that way. it is not like gravity that if we hold it here it will trickle down over time. but the second point is also powerfully true. what happens in the distribution of wealth over time tends importantly on the government, on the policies that any government follows that can either make this problem a bigger problem if we can get more in the economy or that we make it a worse problem and exacerbate. >> a lot of questions are about this particular issue on the taxation. as a matter of fact in georgia we want to know how do you propose to convince more people that taxing themselves at a fair
rate is in their own interest as well as ours? >> to take the decision but everybody has to agree. they have to be -- >> however we are not exactly on one vote here anymore. they create to make it even more but at the same time, we are on the information technologies in the formations in the political motivations and so i think, you know, and this is what people
seem to do when they've read my book. there is time for -- [inaudible] >> the question about how you persuade people that they should pay more taxes if they already have a great deal. part of this goes to the integrity of the tax system itself. a world in which anyone in moderate means looks left and right and says wait a minute. he gets a tax loophole, he gets to move his property overseas and doesn't get taxed. he gets a break for moving jobs overseas. that over the air to get a special deal. the cost of that is not just a cost in dollars. if the cost of integrity in the
system. when people feel like we are not all in this together and we are not paying a fair share of our income or our wealth, then i think what you get is it's sort of all comes unraveled. everyone moves towards i will pay the least because he is paying the least. he's cheating so that means there is no reason for me to go ahead and be scrupulous about what i paid. so partly this is about your ad a moment in american history the tax system has become so riddled with loopholes you talk to small business owners small business owners pay on taxes because the loopholes aren't as available to them that you look at fortune 500 companies that are profitable and end up paying zero in taxes the cost is the
integrity of the system and the sense that we are all in this together and so the first place for me that we have to start this is we have to clean up the tax system he got. that has to be the first step. [applause] >> speaking of integrity and the power of the big money you've recently been on the receiving end of the power. so a lot of people are familiar with this row and the financial times. you have rebounded this week. basically it's turned out the financial times didn't understand how to do that you creation. so even after that was pointed out they follow it up and i want to read you the follow-up and get your reaction to it. further debate on many of the items is difficult because the
professor accepts that he makes still undocumented adjustments to the data and of the forces appeared to be secondary to the professors pry your expectations of what the data needs to show. yonder that being in an incredibly self-aware statement how would you respond and do you plan to respond or do you think this is over? >> what is sent ove they sent oa request for more transparency. my book is not the problem. it was the fact that [inaudible] you take the rankings that had
been writing three times faster and does the financial times has a different ranking so they should step out? with respect to this matter there is a lack of transparency and this is the best thing right now. it's attached to globalization and can make the interest of everybody to be competitive on the times that everybody gets a fair share in the organization and so whoever has a treaty that is one cost of the gdp and we cannot just go for more
transparency. more regulation and we need to make sure that the multinationals pay their fair share. you cannot just make huge profits in the free trad free-td pay no taxes anywhere. you have to have some balance so that everybody makes an effort. the dynamics try to produce more. in fact the main reason with a form of taxation with an exchange of information and the financial aspect is so that we will no. and it's sad that today all that we can do is to learn more information it would be better if you could read the ims factor
and what is going on with different groups. without this the democratic transparency and accountability, we cannot address our policies and we cannot have a peaceful conversation about these issues. >> it sounds to me like you have explained a lot of people that won't want to see more data about the inequality that's out there. >> you're right. democratic institutions are stronger. >> you've been on the receiving end your self. any advice for the professor? >> get back. [laughter]
>> back to the inequality you mentioned that it was the shock of the two world wars douglas and any quality and much of the 20th century. century. i'm wondering if the reverse might actually be true. in other words, was it any coincidence that on the e. of world war i we have historic levels of inequality? if you look at the situation in ukraine now you have heidi any quality and oligarchs battling for the resources. you demonstrate the connection and the inequality. does it go the other way and can there be a connection? >> i think that sometimes if you do not manage to address it in a peaceful way is easy to blame others. so the national response is sometimes the first response so we start to blame foreign workers or neighbors.
so in france and europe we could see that a week ago and people usually don't know how to serve domestic ecology problems for the european unions are they doing germany and china. there is always someone to blame. and yes, sometimes it can be aggravated. now let me say there are many that have played in by changing some of the distribution but there are more peaceful ways. and in fact through the rise of the free expectations practically the response